Value Supposition
From Ladder Wiki
By Tollan
[edit] Original Text
My supposition is that the women a male attracts is a reflection of the value he has in the minds of women. Now, I suppose this is a rather obvious idea for one to have, but to me it seems like that not enough men have internalized this information. This topic isn't really touched on by those at mASF (i.e.,alt.seduction.fast) aside from suggesting that dressing well and working out might be a good idea, given that it requires a rather brutal and honest assessment of one's value in the majority of women's minds. It is generally thought by them that a man who weighs 300 lbs with acne and is 5'2" will attract supermodels based on his ability to run routines, C/F, and other fast seduction techniques which have little to do with changing his fundamental value, which I believe to be rubbish.
In the business of mating it is a matter of how much work needs to be invested by the male to get a particular female and if you look like the aforementioned male then in most cases an inordinate amount of work shall have to be put in to secure a female. The example used by the mASF board is the "iranian from hell" a male who looked much like the one I described and he hit on woman after woman in a club until finally with persistence one found him interesting enough to dance with and they left together at the end of the night. Now whether apocryphal or not this story is used to give hope to all males who may not look like a male model to say that there's more to attracting women than looks, that is true of course, there's also the issue of value, which brings me to my next point.
As my title suggests the women a man attracts says a great deal about his relative value in the minds of women, that is if he is consistently attracting average, rotund, or homely women (e.g., 3's-5's) then there's something fundamentally lacking in the value he manifests to the world. I posted an article awhile ago about the changes a 155 pound 6’3 male (the poster Pook from sosuave.com) noticed in the quality of women he attracted as he put on 50lbs of muscle. In a condensed version it was as follows:
155 I date average women.
165 I still date average women and now some cute women
175 I date only cute women with some very attractive ones mixed in.
185 I date more very attractive women but still have the cute ones.
195 I date only very attractive women. Beautiful women are still a bit of an anomaly.
205 When you get to this stage, something very strange happens. All the attention and staring women gave you is gone (mostly). Ugly/Fat women will despise you as will the average women. Most girls will be scared of you (cute girls, very attractive girls). So at this stage I date some Very Attractive women but most are Very Beautiful Women.
From this we can see that his muscle mass had a great impact on the value women saw in him and it is indeed true that many women will find men who are more muscular more attractive, that is they will see them as ideal short term mating partners but not long term mating partners since in studies muscular men are seen as less likely to get emotionally involved and more likely to stray. Now, muscle mass is but one variable that can be used to determine a male's value in a particular context, because as poster Banestyrelsen told me, at a school in Sweden muscular guys were not considered the fittest males and thus were not valued by females as much but at an international school with American kids, where athleticism was more valued, the more muscular jocks were more admired. So we should understand that value to women is many times context dependent, what works on one group of women may not work on another group.
As mentioned in the previous paragraph though muscle mass is but one variable out of many that attract women, but the example could just have easily been related to height with the same effect on women around him with a male going from 5'6 to 6'3 and noting women that were neutral to him before to desperately wanting him once he was tall enough. Or one could use the variable of money and look at those women who value it (e.g., gold diggers) and examine as a male went from a below average income to that which is well above normal and look at how the women who value extreme wealth flock to him based on his wealth.
Furthermore, one could look at fame, and observe how men who are unknown are treated neutrally to being flocked to with hordes of women desperately wanting them because they're famous, which would introduce in the equation of attraction the variables of competition, novelty, and money/power. And one could observe how the quality of women improved as the male scaled the ladder of value in their minds.
So we can say that depending on what the woman values, and it could be height, money/power, fame, dancing ability, muscle mass, clothing, or some other unknown variable, the male will have women who are neutral to him to greatly wishing to mate with him based on his relative value in their minds, and what they value will vary from woman to woman and context to context. Thus, in HS, it might be Jocks who are the most highly valued, in College it might be the Wealthiest males, in Hollywood it would be a director, casting agent, or producer, in D.C, female interns would greatly value politicians as they have political power, and so on.
Thus, I would term this subject concerning context collectively "milieu dominance" and it was talked about in great detail by the poster Apollo Creed who discussed being the Alpha male, that is the most dominant male, at a summer boating area where he could pretty much get any woman he wanted because he showed the proper amount of disinterest to the hot women and had dominance in that environment so his value in their minds was extremely high, thus they wanted him.
So, in conclusion if a male is attracting a certain quality of woman, let's say 3's-5's and they want to get a higher caliber then examine what may be lacking in their manifested value in the minds of women. It could be the car you drive, amount of money you have, muscle mass, height, fame, novelty, whether you're in a band, lack of competition for you so they're not as interested, clothing, milieu dominance, etc...Now finding out what a woman values can be as easy as looking at who's she's currently dating or who she's dated in the past or finding out from her friends who she's dating. I would say that you should ask her what she values in men, but her answer would be too influenced by political correctness and socially normative answers so it is highly unlikely to be accurate. But, once you find this information out it should be a rather easy or difficult task, depending on what she values and how easy it is to attain it, to get the woman by manifesting the correct value(s).
